February 11, 2008

  • Series: Philosophy, Faith, and the twisted mind of a Software Engineer

    Religion in schools

    One of my most favorite (and least favorite) debates is evolution vs. creationism. It is my favorite because it really is an interesting debate, but it is my least favorite because people on both sides of the argument take themselves waaay too seriously and don’t really think about it. Unfortunately, the Darwinians are as dogmatic as Creationists. There, I said it and I mean it. Too many people come up with the solution they like first, and then spend the rest of their lives trying to find ways to justify their opinions. >_< I've put a lot of thought into this however, and I believe I've found a fairly simple thought exercise that I think flushes out most of the debate. We'll see if you agree.

    Ask yourself the following question: Where does electricity come from?

    Answer 1) According to Faraday’s law, movement of a magnetic field over a coil of wire induces an electrical current.
    Answer 2) Electricity comes from God.

    Now ask yourself – which one is going to help you build a light bulb? OK, now replace Farady’s law with Darwin’s Theories and electricity with mankind. Before everyone jumps down my throat I want to emphasize that the point of this exercise is NOT to state that answer #2 is necessarily wrong. Rather it just isn’t that useful. I’ve often felt people on both sides of the evolution vs. creationism debate have missed the point. The argument should NOT be about whether creationism is wrong, rather the debate should be, where is science useful and where is faith useful? I honestly believe there is a place for faith – especially in a world that is increasing volatile, in no small part thanks to science. I also believe trying to substitute one for the other is a recipe for all kinds of disaster.

    Of course then there are some of you who say, “what about intelligent design?” its a competing theory and should be given equal time. Well, we can run the same thought experiment again, using intelligent design as the basis.

    Answer 3) Movement of a magnetic field over a coil of wire induces an electrical current. This would be impossible without the intervention of a powerful unnamed entity that causes it to be so in a way that is too complex for it to be natural.

    Some might, at this point say, this answer also helps you to build a lightbulb. It has all the same information and so is just as useful as the first answer. It should be given equal time. This area is a bit fuzzier, but lets introduce another answer.

    Answer 4) Movement of a magnetic field over a coil of wire induces an electrical current. Cortez was a conquistador that invaded South America.

    In science we have a rule of thumb called Occam’s razor. In latin it is:

    entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

    which loosely translates to:

    don’t make things harder than you have to

    Answers 1,3, and 4 all provide the same critical information about generating electricity. However, knowing that a powerful unnamed entity (a.k.a God, Q, Allah, Shiva, Wayne Brady) with power that transcends natural laws caused this to be so still does NOT help us to understand and utilize those natural laws any more effectively, and in fact actually distracts us from the critical facts. If answer 3 at least NAMED the entity and a way we could communicate reliably with it or convince it to make electricity or change the laws of physics for us, then it might be useful. Otherwise the bit about the entity is relegated to the same level of importance as Cortez, and in a science curriculum where we are packing more and more information in just to keep up with the Jones’ – lets try and stick to the critical information.

    ….

    Alright I have been pretty harsh on religion so lets end with a thought experiment where faith wins. Here is a question science can’t answer and never will. Why? ^_^

Comments (26)

  • :ssalien: Q.  Haha.

    About 100 million years ago when I was in 5th or 6th grade, I asked my science teacher, who happened to be a nun and was teaching evolution, how could the creation story be true if evolution was true.  From her reaction, I don’t think any kid had ever asked her that before.   She thought for a moment and said it just is.  Funny, that was enough for me.

    If you are a regular person and not a scientist, why can’t it just be that God had a hand in it and sort of let it go at that.     

    Interesting post!

  • @skanickadee - ^_^  It is a fun topic to talk about, as long as everyone is friendly.  hehe.  

  • @skanickadee - There was a Augustian priest by the name of Gregor Mendel, who believed that learning the laws of nature as implemented by God was a way to get to know God better.  He turned out to be the father of modern genetics and one of the great scientists of his day.  ^_^

  • Really, I’ve never understood why people are so intense about this debate. 

    I went and read the Wiki article about Mendel.  Interesting.

  • Hi there.:ssstar:..Oh I couldn’t agree with you more about this subject and the well.your whole first paragraph! i love talking about this..but as you say…sooo many people get upset :( which is no fun….great post..very interesting way to put it* have a great night..Lee

  • Hmm… I’m not going to deny that I’m more Darwinist than Creationist by a long shot, but you really think Science will never answer why?  I forget where but I once read something that described Science as its own religion because there are some instances when you have to make the leap of faith… to just believe that doing a+b will get you c… and it made me laugh because it was true.  Of course I’m not exactly an expert in the sciences… even though I did well in chemistry   I kind of feel that pretty much everything is faith though… I don’t mean necessarily in a higher being.  It’s like with cooking, you know if you mix x ingredient with y ingredient, it should taste like x+y+the unknown that makes them not just the sum of its parts but better… but WHY.  Or… there’s this pole trick… you have to trust the pole will be there to catch you, but sometimes you just can’t- and it’s like, it’s a freaking pole, it’s not going to jump away as you turn around, but … still, to do it, you have to trust, you have to know it’s not going to move… it’s hard to explain, but my point is, a lot of things in life just require faith.  and not everyone understands or accepts that.  even getting in your car each morning, which is totally an invention of science, you have to trust that it will work, the brakes won’t fail, and that you will get to work safely…

    I kind of digressed, but that’s what you made me think of…

  • @moonbunny - its totally true, science has a ton of the same characteristics as religion, as does any type of pervasive set of ideas.  Also I agree completely that everyday we take a leap of faith in trusting that science works.  However, to be fair, I think the religion of science and science need to be treated as distinct (though heavily interrelated) entities.  When you ask – why does this car work? and then answer science, you’ve stepped into the realm of the religion of science.  Science itself requires some adherance to the religion of science because there’s always a point where you have to rely on someone else’s science, because its not really that much fun to spend your entire life verifying everyone else’s experiments.  ^_^  The important qualities of science are measurability and repeatability.  If you don’t have those qualities then I’d argue it doesn’t belong in a science curriculum.   

  • @skanickadee - I suppose the arguments are so intense because it always ends up being “about the children”.  

  • I think I understood physics up to the point where they started introducing atoms and electricity. At l that point, my mind was lead astray down a path of insurmountable weakness and incomprehension causing me to be the depressed and shaking person that you see today. 
    I’m such a tawdry example of women in science. ::sigh:: I didn’t even know W was for tungsten. 
    :ssboohoo:

  • @Rozblossom - 

    I hope thats not what you put on your grad school apps.  >_<

  • We definitely need sky daddies to answer why questions. Oh… Why? I think I’m clever. Why don’t we slice everything up with that good ol’ Occam’s razor?

    This blog deserves a politically correct award.

  • @joseph - no, I told them I was witty, oh so witty. witty and pretty and interdisciplinary and freeeee  (no need for funding, monsieur)

  • but… you do need funding…:ssoh:

  • @The_Astrocreep - 

    huh.  I’m not sure how to take that response.  In general, its my experience that people are more receptive to your ideas when you don’t imply that they are morons.  

  • @joseph - you are my funding! duhhhhh

  • @The_Astrocreep - 

    In general, the Darwinian (and more broadly complexity theory) basically implies that our “why” is to reproduce – or to at least help those who are related to us reproduce.  We exist because our combination of genetic materials are predisposed to self replication, and finding ways to feed that process.  While I’ll admit that “procreation” it is a it is a fun reason for living, one ultimately needs to find a way to fill the time between those reproductive acts.  (which for some is much longer than others.  >_<)  

  • @joseph - I should try your style out more often then.

    last comment was very funny.

  • You for sure know your stuff, don’t you? :] It’s pretty intense. I usually avoid the topic altogether because I don’t see how it’s that important. I don’t even know why people sit there and argue four hours and days, months and years about it. It just gets kind of redundant, I’d much rather just let things be than sit there and try to figure out where we came from. In fact, I’d rather figure out ways to make where we’re going better than what it could be now.

    I do agree with you though, there’s a time and place for everything, including science and faith.

    RYC: Hahaha, I’m sorry I’m confusing. :( I didn’t try to be, it made sense to me because, I guess, I knew what bands were which and the thought made complete sense in my mind. ^_^;;

  • Hello Joseph,
    I like your site that you worked hard to make simple yet elegant. I see that you have a wide variety of interests and observations here!
    I like to write articles about God and religion on my site to help people to really get to know God, especially in these troubled times.”All they have eyes for is the fashionable god of darkness. They think he can give them what they want, and that they won’t have to bother believing a Truth they can’t see…” (2Corinthians 4:4) (Message Bible) I hope you get a chance to look at them.

  • This is some of the best examples of pragmatic thought I’ve seen in awhile.  Good to know people are still applying the only truly American philosophy.

  • @Kefga_X - Glad you think so.  ^_^ 

  • All i saw was a. philosophy b. faith and c. ahahah software engineer and i have to be honest with you. I didn’t read on. :ssgoofywink:

  • I suppose the arguments are so intense because it always ends up being “about the children”.  

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